Jack O'Donnell of O'Donnell & Associates, LLC

David Pfalzgraf: Welcome everyone to year three of Ru Falls graph's, empire State Entrepreneurs and New York Business Law Podcast. A really fun and informative forum for us to showcase our clients, strategic partners, good friends and community leaders to talk about relevant issues for entrepreneurs and business owners throughout New York.
My name is David Gra. I'm very, uh, blessed to be the managing partner. At a local law firm called Ru Fallsgraph. We've been in business now going on 26 years and have become a full service firm with offices throughout New York. Um, it's a really fun, uh, work environment to be in and I'm really blessed to, uh, have had a role in, in helping to build the firm over the years.
Um, before we get to our special guest, I did want to take a minute to thank Eric and Mike and all of our friends at Incept for allowing us to host our podcast here in this, uh, super cool studio. It's come a long way over the three years since I've been using it, and when I tell you it's state [00:01:00] of the art, it really is.
Incept does such a good job, uh, for my law firm and, uh,
really,
really excited about, um, all the, uh, great initiatives that we're working on with them. So with that. I'm gonna welcome a good friend of mine, Jack O'Donnell. Jack is the founder and managing partner at O'Donnell and Associates, a really great lobby firm that's headquartered right here in Buffalo, which obviously maintains a presence in Albany and we'll talk a lot about that.
Um, but before we do, I just wanna welcome you to the show, Jack.
Jack O'Donnell: Well, David, thank you very much. It's an honor to be here and, uh, I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
David Pfalzgraf: Uh,
well
thank you for taking time outta
your,
your day, Jack, and I'm glad, uh, we're doing this with you physically present in Buffalo, not over
a,
a Teams or a Zoom with you being in Albany.
'cause I know you spend quite a bit of time there, uh, as well. Um, and
we'll,
we'll talk a little bit about how you do spend your time today, but before doing so, can you give our listeners a little, um. Sense of
your,
your background. I know you're come from a proud western New York family and, [00:02:00] um,
but,
but give us all a little, um, insight into your upbringing
and,
and
sort of
your early years before you got to college.
Jack O'Donnell: Um, what a good question.
Well,
uh, um,
you know,
grew up in Buffalo, in, in western New York,
kind of
grew up
sort of
in and around this political and governmental world. Um,
as,
as
you know,
Jack's Background & Family Legacy
Jack O'Donnell: my father. Recently retired as a New York State Supreme Court judge. So I grew up kind, pretty
David Pfalzgraf: judge
Jack O'Donnell: watching him. Uh,
well,
he was a little tough on, uh, sons I always thought.
But, um,
you know,
I grew up as he was aspiring for that
and,
and being part of that.
So,
um,
you know, grew,
grew up in, in Buffalo and western New York. Um, went to Buffalo Public Schools through eighth grade. Um, grew up right in the city and, uh, just
a,
a proud buffalonian.
David Pfalzgraf: And,
and I know your mom was also, uh, an active attorney and had some prominent roles throughout her career as you as well.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah, absolutely.
I [00:03:00] mean, I,
I, again,
really,
really blessed here. Uh, my father ended as a, his career as a New York State Supreme Court Justice. Uh, my mother was a, uh, she went to law school a little later in life. At a time when there weren't so many, um, women in this world. Um, worked as an assistant US attorney for a number of years, really worked her way
kind of
through the office there, and ended up becoming the US attorney, uh, for the Western district, the first woman there.
David Pfalzgraf: Amazing.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah. Amazing. She went on
to to,
to work at the state level work in Washington under the Obama administration. Um,
you know,
really big footsteps, um, that I'm honored to follow in.
David Pfalzgraf: That's,
that's really amazing. And, uh, knew both your parents, know both your parents well, and they're just wonderful people.
So,
no surprise, Jack,
where,
where, and how you've ended up, uh, as successful as you've been.
But,
but
I,
I'm sure with. That, um, with the,
you know,
success that you saw your [00:04:00] parents have and their engagement in the community, both professionally,
you know,
civically personally,
you know,
that comes with a responsibility, I'm sure.
And so
talk,
talk to, uh, me and our listeners a little bit about you. You. In high, I wanna say you went to Kenesha High School.
Jack O'Donnell: Um, close. I went to a better high school. I went to St. Joe's. St. Joe's.
David Pfalzgraf: Duly noted. And thank you for correcting me on that. So I'll let that one stay in Eric too. So I think
that's a,
that's a good zinger that you just.
Reluctantly. We'll keep it. Alright, that's great. We got good point Jack, and thank you for correcting the record there. Uh, so you go off to Joe's and then from there remind me
where,
where
you, you,
you attend college?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah. Um, went to St. Joe's. I graduated, uh, from Kenesis College. Um, spent a little time, uh, at Fairfield University where I had an awful lot of fun and did not learn very much and, um,
was,
was happy to graduate
from,
from Kenesha where I did learn a lot.
David Pfalzgraf: And,
and talk to us [00:05:00] a little bit about then the early stages of your career.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah.
Well,
I,
you know, a,
a, again, back to this,
Early Career in Politics
Jack O'Donnell: I watched a lot of politics, um, growing up I would go to campaign rallies or door to door
or,
or meet candidates and
it,
it
kind of
got under my skin. So
I,
I graduated Kenesha in 1996, which happened to be
a, a,
a presidential election year.
I had spent most of college working at, um, the us uh, um, at Immigration Services who had a big office here in Buffalo, and they had actually offered me a full-time job. And so I planned, uh, to take that job and be an inspector.
Right?
So what's your citizenship? Uh,
you know,
hundred percent hang out at the Peace Bridge.
You know,
um, it, it seemed like a lot of fun, but the reality is they weren't going to, I wasn't gonna become full-time until later in November, even though I graduated in May. Um, so I, [00:06:00] um, hitched a ride with some of my parents' friends, got a ride to the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, um, passed out resumes on paper.
Incredible. I don't know
that
that still exists,
but,
but pass them out to people. Snuck into the convention floor. I got to meet a lot of people and eventually got a job working on the Clinton Gore reelection campaign
in,
in New York City. Uh, my boss was this, uh, political operative named Bill De Blassio, who's gone on to do a couple other things.
His deputy, who I, uh, reported to was a woman named Karen Perelli. Um, who is now Karen Perelli Keo, who happens to be the secretary to the governor of New York right now.
So,
got to meet a lot of people got involved
in,
in the politics of it, and the idea of going back to a booth and, uh, checking people's passports, uh, just didn't appeal.
So I don't
1535_Rupp_ESEPodcast_DaveSynched: blame
Jack O'Donnell: you.
David Pfalzgraf: I was off
Jack O'Donnell: and running.
David Pfalzgraf: Yeah. I don't blame you.
So that,
so that late. Late 1990s,
you,
you
sort of, you,
you begin to [00:07:00] think that being in and around politics was something that was of interest to you. You got some firsthand experience with it, working on the campaign
in,
in 96.
So,
so walk us through then,
sort of as,
as you get.
Through the nineties and into the early two thousands, how
your,
your,
what,
what progression your career takes.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah.
Well,
uh, to be honest, at the time I was a young man
and,
and was having fun and doing stuff that, that I thought mattered and wasn't thinking as much about a career
or,
or the next day,
right.
Or the next year. Um, but it,
I, I,
I really, um, I fell in with this guy who was running for United States Senate. Um, nobody really gave him a chance. Um, he was a distant third in Democratic primary polls, and nobody thought that any of the Democrats could beat Aldama, who was the incumbent senator. It's hard to believe that the late nineties New York was a purple state.
Um, but it was, and we had a Republican governor
and,
and all of these things
were,[00:08:00]
were at issue, but because no one thought he could win, he was willing to hire some, uh,
you know,
kids without a lot experience. So I.
Working with Chuck Schumer
Jack O'Donnell: I spent the next, uh, 18 months driving around, uh, New York State with a big sign that said, come meet Congressman Chuck Schumer.
Incredible,
incredible.
You know, Chuck,
Chuck convinced me, right? He came to Buffalo. He was talking about the future of Buffalo. In 1997 in a way that very few people in Buffalo were, um, he was very bullish and optimistic about the future of this community,
which is,
which is really what I felt. And, um,
you know, he,
he went on to win and.
The truth is
all,
all my friends,
my parents,
my parents' friends said,
well,
you've gotta go to Washington. There's a great opportunity to work for a senator. And Washington's very exciting.
But you know,
I, to your point, I love upstate New York. I love Buffalo and Western New York, and I felt
like,
especially at that time.[00:09:00]
Everybody, so many people who were really talented were leaving, right? Everybody I went to college in high school with, half of them had jobs in North Carolina
or, or,
or out west. And,
you know,
I felt a real obligation to stay here and try to be part of the solution, especially working with someone, um, who said he was gonna come back
and,
and he has.
David Pfalzgraf: How,
how telling is that Jack? And I think that's, I didn't know that about you. Uh,
that,
that you had this opportunity to go off to DC.
I mean, what a,
what a, um, mature decision at the time to know the importance of this community to you and to your family. And
I,
I don't, I can't think of many, including myself, that would've passed up an opportunity to go serve an important role in DC with,
you know,
a rising Senate star,
like,
like Chuck Schumer.
So I, that, that speaks volumes to me about
your,
your mindset even as a, um, a younger adult about the importance of this community. Um, look no [00:10:00] further than that decision to see,
you know,
people that were not leaving, but that there were a handful of individuals like yourself who were staying
and,
and going to,
you know,
drive change or make an impact.
So you ever look back on that decision and wonder
what,
what,
you know,
the sliding door scenario
if,
if you had gone
with, with,
with Senator Schumer and, um, how long you might've.
You know,
stayed in DC or
what,
what career path might've looked like for you?
Jack O'Donnell: A,
a,
a little,
I mean,
I,
you know,
I have some friends who made the different choice right?
And,
and ended up in DC and,
you know,
look, they've had the opportunity to work in the White House, uh, work in congressional leadership
and,
and all of that's really interesting. But.
You know,
Chuck Schumer really was approaching how a state office worked differently,
right.
Um, at that point, one unit, one United States Senator from New York had visited all 62 counties in a six year term, right?
Pat Moynahan had [00:11:00] done that over six years, and,
you know,
Chuck developed it differently
and,
and that really that.
You know,
understanding of how things work and how you can make change and how you can cut through red tape
and,
and deliver results,
you know,
is just really important to who I am
and,
and what I do today.
So,
yeah, once in a while
I,
I wonder, but again,
this,
this is my home and I love it here.
David Pfalzgraf: That's great. Uh, so
you, you,
you pass on the opportunity to go to DC Thank God for us. Um, and then what, what happens in the early two thousands? Or are you working on your own yet, or are you still
sort of
working
with,
with other, uh, political leaders?
Jack O'Donnell: I, I,
I spent a, another, uh, I don't know, 10 years in politics and government, um, working for a few different electeds. Um,
you know,
Elliot Spitzer Ale and Henessy, Hillary Clinton, um, Kathy Hoel
as
as county clerk, um,
you know,
Andrew Cuomo. Basically all the statewide Democrats you heard of. I've [00:12:00] been there.
Upstate Sherpa, if you will. That's awesome. It's awesome. How do you pronounce Chi Daga?
Right.
Um,
and, and,
and that's been a part of it, but being able to connect upstate and downstate
and,
and be able to speak both languages, um, I think
is
is important to who I am.
David Pfalzgraf: When,
when did you develop this? Idea or thought that maybe like formalizing that role you were playing for these sort of statewide political leaders
and,
and
you know,
thinking about
sort of
changing your focus to,
you know,
rather than advocating for them, but advocating for.
You know,
constituency groups
or,
or businesses, uh, in,
you know,
throughout the state, um, but maybe in particular
in,
in upstate
or,
or Western New York. Did
was that,
was that,
you know,
DNA always present in you Jack? Or did you
sort of,
was there an
aha,
aha moment when you thought, Hey, look, maybe I could use my experience, my contacts, my desire [00:13:00] to see Western New York.
Uh, succeed, um,
in a,
in a different way.
I,
I could use my talents to become
sort of
a,
you know,
a, an advocate for those businesses.
That,
that was there a moment in time when that happened?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah. I'd like to tell you about the,
you know,
Transition to Lobbying
Jack O'Donnell: the time I had the eureka, the flux capacitor moment. But
the,
the reality is I
kind of
lucked into this too.
Um,
or,
or stumbled or fell,
I guess.
Um.
You know,
I didn't grow up thinking, oh, I want to
be a,
be a lobbyist. I, um,
you know,
when I was working in government and politics,
you know,
I, in government, I, a couple times I got a little bored, went back to law school. Um,
I,
I had some real health challenges. At one point in my life, I almost died.
Health Challenges & A New Path
Jack O'Donnell: I had an organ transplant that saved my life. Um, which is actually where I got involved
with,
with units Upstate New York transplant, where I got to know and admire your mother
very,
very much
so,
um, became a great friend
and,
and was a great advocate. She loved you. She loved you. That's true. [00:14:00] She loved her man.
She did so much for me as I was coming through this. Things
I,
I can't ever explain, but,
you know,
so
I,
I had some friends who had been on, uh, the Clinton campaign, Hillary Clinton campaign in 2000 and, uh, they were at a lobbying firm
in,
in, uh, Albany. I was just finishing up, um, law school
and,
and working, um, on some campaigns at the time, and they said,
you know, come,
come do a little of this.
It's,
it's fun. And
you know,
I had the same reaction a lot of people do, which is a lobbyist. Come on.
Right. I mean,
it
is, is it,
is it worse than a trial lawyer?
Right?
I got all of these in
my,
my DNA David, it was
sort of like, well,
I don't know
that
that's really what I want to do. How am I gonna tell my mother that?
Right.
Um,
but,
but then,
you know, I,
I worked out a couple things and got to see this side of it,
and,
and to be honest, I realized in a lot of ways it's the fun part of government, right? At the end of the day, [00:15:00] I don't, with all due respect to the people who do care.
I,
I don't care if your sidewalk is broken or the tree came down, I don't really want to go door to door and get petitions.
Those things are vitally important, um, but they don't speak to me. Um, making a big project happen, making a,
you know,
getting this building open, getting a, an airport, uh,
you know,
an airline in, uh,
you know,
trains, working things built,
you know,
that's really cool and that's really fun. And I realized I, I get, I can do that.
Um, and not have to do the other part of it, um, and work with a lot of different really interesting things. Um,
and,
and so that's how I got here.
David Pfalzgraf: Tell me, remind me when you went to law school, what years?
Jack O'Donnell: Well,
I'm one of those people that spent seven years in law school Now,
I,
I,
well,
I started in 2004. I went for a couple years.
Um, I got sick. Um, I had to,
you know,
petition the court to go back to law school in and incredible, uh, graduated in [00:16:00] 2010.
David Pfalzgraf: Incredible. Incredible. Yeah.
And, and,
and so shortly thereafter, it was in the sort of 2010 to 20. 20 era
that
that you then, your career shifted away from straight politics or political support to more of a lobbyist role or position.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah, that's about right. I think the first time I ever registered as a lobbyist was in 2008. Um, and then, um, yeah, I was still finishing law school and doing a couple things. Um, but yeah.
David Pfalzgraf: Tell me then, as we get like closer to present time or
you know,
late,
you know,
two, 2000 tens,
you know,
going into pre, maybe just pre COVID, ID tell our listeners a little bit about sort of initial impressions.
Were you finding that.
Those,
those goals, those dreams of yours to effectuate change or to help, um,
you know,
private business enterprises
or,
or even the public sector, um, in your community. See [00:17:00] success.
Did,
did it happen?
Did,
did you strike lightning?
I mean, did,
did you see outcomes and results, uh, initially
from your,
from your lobbying efforts?
Jack O'Donnell: Yes, absolutely.
I mean,
look, it's, it is slow. It can be hard. It can be, um,
you know,
even. Even, uh, I think I said this to you recently, and we can get government moving faster, but that's not the same as moving fast,
right.
Um, but look well said. Yeah.
I, I,
I got to work
at a,
at a growing lobbying firm, um, where I learned a lot about this side of it
and,
and got to work on some really interesting things.
I, I.
Key Wins: The Alstom Contract
Jack O'Donnell: I'll tell you the most,
I mean,
one of them that stands out is, um,
you know,
we do work, um, for a company called Alstom who is
a, a,
a large train manufacturer around the world. They have a huge um. A facility in Horne, New York, and I think we started working for them in 2010, 2009. They were going [00:18:00] after a big contract from Amtrak to build the newest ELA trains.
Um, they were competing against other global companies. And one of the things that I was able to do that I think particularly. I don't know who else could have done it, but because of my relationship at the time
with,
with Governor Andrew Cuomo, we were able to get some state investment, um, in the factory, right?
The factory at one point had a thousand people. It was down to about a hundred. Um, we were able to get some state investment, which allowed them to. It's to bid a little less at the same time. Um, because of my relationship with Chuck Schumer, we got Chuck Schumer to work Amtrak now. Um, it's a open secret in, in politics and government that Andrew Cuomo and Chuck Schumer hated each other.
Um, but I was able to keep them apart. Incredible. Incredible. Yeah.
And,
and get this done. And they want
a, a,
a two plus, almost $3 billion contract. And those trains
are,
are now going between [00:19:00] Boston and New York City.
David Pfalzgraf: What,
what a great example, Jack, I think of my profession, the legal profession. Our profession is,
you know, the,
the importance of advocacy and whether you're a trial lawyer or an m and a lawyer, or a labor and employment lawyer.
But
pure,
pure and simple.
You know,
I think that the attorneys in our profession who see the most success are those who
are,
are very strong advocates and able to,
you know,
work a room or to broker deals that others,
you know,
if you took a litigious approach, it might not work. And if you gave everything, then you know you might not be as effect.
But
I mean,
that example you just outlined, I think
is,
is really a good one when it comes to
sort of
navigating competing interests, navigating very, um,
you know,
different federal and state issues and,
you know,
so I'm impressed at, even in early stage of your lobbying career to be involved in a project of that magnitude and to see that.
Sort of success
is,
is pretty cool.
Jack O'Donnell: I
1535_Rupp_ESEPodcast_JackSynched: it,
Jack O'Donnell: it was [00:20:00] great.
And,
and look, I, that's how I see
our,
our job, my job right, is as an advocate, it's no different than the people who are out there advocating for the environment or advocating for,
you know,
the park down the street.
Right?
We do that on a larger level and it can be more involved and more complicated.
But,
but it's all advocacy and relationships.
David Pfalzgraf: Uh, both
and,
and critically important I think to, uh, getting,
you know,
clients to, to have success that
we're,
we're,
you know,
seeking for them. Uh, so COVID hits, um. Post COVID, you're still
sort of
working with the more, uh, established firm.
Jack O'Donnell: So I, I made the decision to leave,
I,
I left in November of, so four
of,
of, is it 19, four months before COVID.
Oh, God bless you. Oh my gosh, yes. And, um,
you know, I,
I talking about entrepreneurship
and,
and all the things that you guys do so well, I'll be very honest. I didn't know [00:21:00] how to do this.
Right. And,
and,
you know,
I had wanted to leave for a while. Again, being at the big firm was great.
I I,
I saw a lot. I learned a lot, but I also learned a lot about what I didn't want to do, right?
Starting
with,
with conflicts, um,
you know, the,
the, there is no, uh, bar association providing guidance
to,
to lobbying firms, and it gets messy. And it's not just we're on opposite sides of a bill, it's if I go see the speaker, what's my number one priority?
Well,
that gets lost if there's 12 o other partners with different priorities coming in behind me.
So
David Pfalzgraf: that's a good point.
Jack O'Donnell: I,
I,
I wanted to leave, but I was very scared. I remained scared about running a business, right?
I,
I didn't wanna be doing the it,
right.
I didn't want to be worrying about people's e email addresses. All of the things that, that go into, take a time of a managing partner.
Right.
And, um, I like to tell people I know a lot more about the cause and [00:22:00] effects of the war of 1812 than I do about writing
a,
a business plan.
So, you know,
it was a real leap of faith. And then,
you know,
three months in,
as,
as my clients were still transitioning, basically all my clients came with me, but it takes time to get them registered for sure. And cleaned up and moved and all of those things. Suddenly some of them were laying off 10,000 people
and,
and how to feed my family.
And now I felt like I've gotta deliver the payroll for my team
and,
and get that done.
So,
oh gosh. I know it was scary and terrible for so many people
and,
and worse on, on the people who've,
you know,
who didn't make it through. But it was scary.
David Pfalzgraf: Tell me, so you survive through COVID and begin to get.
You know,
um,
some,
some traction
as,
as we're thinking about.
2023 and 2024. And even last year. So give our listeners a sense of how you're spending your time today and
what,
what [00:23:00] sort of engagements have you excited, whether it's statewide
or,
or here in, in Buffalo or Western New York?
What, what,
what are you motivated about today, Jack?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah.
Well,
first I, just to finish that thought, I'll be honest.
You could see during COVID that people needed help.
Right. And,
and people who had relationships were able to communicate with elected officials with their staffs, and we could do that.
And,
and that's
kind of
what set us up for today.
Right?
Um,
you know,
the chaos that is out there at the federal level, at some extent to the state
and,
and local level, um, may not be the way that the founders intended.
Um, but the more people need help and the less they think, oh, I'm just gonna see my congressman at Wegmans, and it'll get done,
the,
the better that is for us,
you know, from a,
from a business point of view,
you know? So,
look, we're, I'm really fortunate.
Our,
our firm has grown
like,
like you we're across the state, Buffalo, Rochester, [00:24:00] Albany, New York City.
Um, we are really
kind of
doubling down on our New York City presence. There's obviously a new mayor there, like there is in other parts of the state. Um, but there's also a new city council, new speaker, um,
you know,
just a number of factors while we're doing things.
I mean,
again,
I,
I am so fortunate because we get to help all these people who help people, right?
And
so, you know, we,
we have some clients in healthcare who are being really challenged, but finding. Innovative ways to,
to,
to get them funded
and,
and solve their problems
and,
and move them forward. Um,
you know,
we talked for a minute about Stom. Um, last year we were able to help them get a big contract at the MTA.
So now when they're done with the Congrat contract plans, congrat, uh, they've got a $3 billion. Congrat, congrat, subway, congrat, incredible Subway, congrat, uh, plan.
You know,
for me
it's,
it's those challenges
and,
and often it's the ones you don't expect, [00:25:00] um, the piece of legislation, right? Last year,
the,
the, in the state legislature, there were already 15,000, uh, pieces
of,
of legislation introduced.
Incredible,
incredible. So often these are ones that will destroy you or destroy someone's business,
and,
and folks just don't know what it is.
So,
um, finding those, finding people, finding their way to, to innovate, um. I'm rambling a little here.
You know, in a,
in a couple weeks we do work for m and t Bank. M and t Bank is opening a new, uh, a new, um, branch in the Bronx.
So we have been taking them around the Bronx and building those relationships with the,
you know,
the speaker of the state assembly happens to be from there, but so does, uh,
you know,
a member of Congress who's on financial services. So
kind of
putting all those things together and integrating it. Is really fun.
David Pfalzgraf: What a,
what a, another good example of where you can lean in and add value to,
you know,
a great maintenance state company like m and t Bank and help them really think. [00:26:00] About entering the Bronx and doing it so in a very thoughtful way and having a resource like you Jack, to make those strategic introductions.
It's a really good example too, of where I don't, I wouldn't think of that as traditional lobbying,
but
But where you're relationships, your contacts, your sort of knowledge of the players. Could be
very,
very helpful.
Jack O'Donnell: It is. And how do you map that in a way that you're creating jobs in a community that needs them desperately, but you're building a relationship.
So when there's a bill that's really bad for your business and you're having that conversation, you have that trust, right? You have that relationship with those decision makers and they're gonna treat your concerns, uh, a little differently.
David Pfalzgraf: How,
how do you stay? And I've always been impressed since the time
I've,
I've gotten to know you Jack,
at,
at how well read you are at how, um, versed you are
at,
at,
you know,
bills you mentioned thousands of bills that come on.
I would only, it would spin my [00:27:00] head to think about knowing what each one of those said or
what,
what impact, uh, one of those may have on a client. But
how,
how do you stay so well informed? Are you constantly reading
or,
or listening to podcasts or what?
What,
what is your go-to mechanisms to stay
as,
as
sort of
current, uh, or relevant
with,
with current issues?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah,
it,
it's
sort of
an all of the above, uh, approach.
I mean, I,
I read voraciously, I'm, I am addicted to the new cycle and not just. Twitter, um, uh,
you know, and,
and social media. But I,
you know,
I read a number of newspapers every morning and,
you know,
you, you learn in this world that you have to be doing them right, but then you also need to be
talking to folks,
talking to folks who you don't know, and asking them questions
and,
and finding ways to put it together.
I mean,
look,
we,
we really pride ourselves in knowledge. Um,
you know, our, our,
our tagline is intelligence guided by experience, right? Putting
those,
[00:28:00] those. Things together. Um, which is why,
you know,
we do this Monday morning memo, if I can put in a plug right. It's
a,
a, um,
a,
a review of kind of what's happening
in,
in Albany and Washington locally in, in government.
We've won a couple awards. I'll tell you, there's a ton of leaders, uh, in Albany and in New York City
who,
who read it. That's awesome. Um, and we are trying to throw open that door, right? A lot of lobbyists will say,
well,
I did this thing behind closed doors. Just trust me.
I,
I,
who,
who does that in this day and age?
Right?
We've gotta show you that value, that return.
You know,
you've gotta know what we're doing and then we gotta be smarter than there.
David Pfalzgraf: Uh,
tell,
tell me a little bit about, um. Uh, your focus on Buffalo and Western New York,
what,
what has you excited about some of the developments
you see
going on in our city these days?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah,
I mean, it's,
it's, um, I do think the new mayor is exciting. I think he's gonna have
some,
some challenges. But,
you know,
[00:29:00] one of the things, and I often try to. Through these things or look at these things through a historical lens.
You know,
Buffalo literally hasn't had a,
Buffalo's New Mayor & Cultural Institutions
Jack O'Donnell: what I call a change election since 1977.
Right? You, you know,
you had Jimmy Griffin kind of hand this over to Tony Maci,
kind of
handed it over to Byron Brown or handed it over to Chris Kalen,
you know,
so for the first time you have someone who's coming in
and,
and shaking things up and
you know,
there are enormous challenges that go with that.
But there are also opportunities.
You know,
my conversations with
this,
this mayor who we know very well from his time in Albany is,
you know,
he's gonna, he's gonna shoot big, right? He's gonna try to do some big things and,
you know,
it is essential we do the potholes. It's essential we get
the,
the streets plowed, but we need some big thinking, right?
How are we gonna save downtown? How are we gonna revitalize that?
You know,
we need some of that sort of big picture stuff. Um, the other thing for me is really [00:30:00] exciting is we are very involved in the cultural community here doing work for the,
you know,
Buffalo Zoo, the A KG, um, Niagara Aquarium.
You know,
those things are real drivers of the economy in a way that.
Maybe I didn't know when I was younger. I liked them, enjoyed them. I take my kids to them, but I don't think I fully grasp how, um, essential they are to the economy, how much they add. And I think all of those places have really strong leadership that's looking to the future as well. So I'm excited about what's gonna come out of those projects.
David Pfalzgraf: Uh, and those are just such critical. Pieces to what,
you know,
is the essence
of,
of Western New York. When you talk about the A KG and the Buffalo Zoo, those are institutions, Shea's Buffalo
that,
that we as a community need to advocate for and need to see thriving. And,
you know,
you bring up downtown and it's,
you know, it's,
it's something that, um,
you know,
my law firm
is,
[00:31:00] is committed to staying downtown and we love being in the liberty building.
And, but it is. Still, we're not seeing yet the traction, the momentum
on a,
on a given weekend. Uh,
in,
in Buffalo, downtown Buffalo. We're still not seeing,
you know,
tons of people
sort of,
um, utilizing the shops and restaurants
and,
and other cultural venues.
So.
Any, uh, are you actively involved,
you know,
with others or
as,
as a firm Jack, in thinking about the revitalization of downtown or what it might take and,
you know,
three to five years from now to see more energy and momentum happening downtown?
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah.
I,
I am,
we're,
we're
Downtown Revitalization
Jack O'Donnell: working on a project with a developer downtown. Um, we have. Through that, been able to build a partnership with, um, folks who are doing the same thing in Rochester, Syracuse, and Albany. Um, we now have some legislation sponsored by, uh, majority leader crystal people stokes that would really, um.
[00:32:00] Provide some help to do office to residential conversions in these downtowns. Um, the state has provided
some,
some real resources to do some of that in New York City,
and,
and I know you're there regularly. There are some neighborhoods where you can start feeling those changes a hundred because there's people living there.
Um, and I think that's a real key to what's gonna happen downtown. So I'm really optimistic about that. We're pushing
in the,
in the budget this year, um, to make that happen. But I'm really optimistic that's gonna happen and that would help, not just the one project they're working on. They think if we could get this done the right way,
it,
it could be five to 10 projects just for them over the next
David Pfalzgraf: be amazing few
Jack O'Donnell: years.
David Pfalzgraf: Be amazing. Uh, I think all of us collectively can do our part to try to make sure that we see this continued investment in and revitalization
of,
of Buffalo. Um, I was gonna, uh, before I let you go, a
couple,
couple last items, but one is,
you know,
think ahead, [00:33:00] Jack, and
you know, you've,
you've had great success and,
you know,
overcome certainly some incredible adversity and challenges in your life and you should be very proud of that.
Give,
give me a sense a little bit
of,
of what you think the future might hold for you
think,
think five years out, 10 years out, continuing doing what you're doing or doing something different or
you're,
you're happy now and can see that continuing
for,
for years to come.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah. What a good question, right?
I mean, I,
I'll tell you what I see as I have an 8-year-old and a 10-year-old.
Um, so that's what you
David Pfalzgraf: see right
Jack O'Donnell: in front of you. I'm
very,
very focused on kinda getting them through to the next phase
and, and,
and, uh, in the meantime. Look, I love what I do. Uh, like I said, we get to work. It's so nice for these amazing people who are literally saving lives, right?
I,
I can't do that. I'm not gonna be on the front line of the opioid crisis.
Our clients are, right. They're saving lives, right? They're doing that, and here I have,
you know,
the, this opportunity that I get to help them [00:34:00] do that, and it's just a real blessing.
David Pfalzgraf: That's awesome. That's awesome.
Well,
Looking Ahead & Closing Thoughts
David Pfalzgraf: I'll let you go, but before I do, uh, I always challenge,
you know,
my guests to give
our,
our listeners
a
a little known fact about Jack O'Donnells or something in your background that our listeners might find to be funny or interesting.
Jack O'Donnell: Yeah, I don't,
I mean, I, I,
I'll give you two quick things. I don't know how interesting they are, but, um,
you know, I,
I, uh, did publish a book a few years ago about a guy named William Ser, the only governor of New York. To be impeached again, having worked for Allen Henessy and Elliot Spitzer that when they got in trouble, the stories were, they'll be the first one impeached since William Sso and there wasn't a lot about him.
So I went and found out some
and,
and published that. It's bitten by the tiger. It's on Amazon. Awesome. If anybody's, that's awesome. If anybody's interested, um.
You know,
the other thing that I would love to see more of in the future, I used to sail competitively and, um, that's
David Pfalzgraf: right.
Jack O'Donnell: You know,
uh, I used to do that a lot of fun
in,
in [00:35:00] 1996, um, we qualified for the Olympic trials.
Now we didn't go and we would've gotten crushed and,
you know.
I single handedly elect reelected, uh, bill Clinton instead, or deliver New York State for him. But, um,
you know,
that, that was a high point.
David Pfalzgraf: That's great.
Well,
Jack, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciated having you on
as a,
as a guest today.
So best of luck to you going forward.
Jack O'Donnell: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad you're doing this
for,
for somebody with your experience, your,
you know,
what you've done and what you've done at the firm to you, open this up to people is really great.
David Pfalzgraf: Aw, thanks, Jack. Thanks so much. How was that Eric?
Erik Wollschlager: That was good.
Thanks.
David Pfalzgraf: Thanks, Jack. That was great. Sure.
Erik Wollschlager: That was,
that was really good. Uh, couple things. Um, and then Dave, if you thought of
David Pfalzgraf: anything. Sure, sure.
Erik Wollschlager: Uh, how has advocacy changed with constant and instant access to information? Um, that's
David Pfalzgraf: a good one,
Erik Wollschlager: especially now that
like, you know,
you can just go to your computer and have entire [00:36:00] stories told.
And then on top of that, because that information is available, is there a responsibility of a advocacy to battle misinformation?
Jack O'Donnell: Hmm.
David Pfalzgraf: Okay. Yeah, I think so. So
I'll,
I'll just say
like,
building on
a,
a prior answer. Yeah. How has advocacy changed with this AI world that we live in or something like that? Um.
Hey Jack, before I let you go, I wanted to build on, uh, an answer you gave a little bit ago around the importance
of,
of advocacy. You and I were talking about the legal profession or being a lobbyist, and,
you know,
connections and relationships
are,
are, um,
sort of
our mainstay. It's what makes both of us,
you know,
valuable to our given clients.
But I'm curious as to whether.
You know,
that access, that advocacy, those connections and relationships, has it changed? I know it has our profession, but with this sort of, um, not just ai, but constant [00:37:00] access to information and this, um, internet age and this AI age that we live in,
it's,
it's having a radical impact on the legal profession
as,
as you can imagine, and I'm sure know, but in, in terms of your business
has,
has your, uh.
Technique. Has your, um, process, uh, at all changed your, the way you're advocating for your clients change with this constant access that our clients have to information?
Jack O'Donnell: Um,
it,
1535_Rupp_ESEPodcast_JackSynched: it,
Jack O'Donnell: it has and it hasn't, right?
I mean,
it, it has in the way that all of these digital tools
have,
have changed things and.
You know,
we could talk at length about how that's expanded,
right.
But,
you know,
we can geofence the capital and make sure we're delivering ads to just people who've walked in and out.
Right.
Or people may do that
on,
on legislator's offices and things like that.
Right. So, you know, you're,
you're hitting them
with,
with digital ads. And look, all of those things are really important as part of a.
Big strategy, right? [00:38:00] Depending on what you're working on
and,
and the resources you have. Um, but at the end of the day, most of these legislators
are,
are gonna make a real decision
and,
and, um, are gonna make an affirmative or negative decision based on the facts in front of them. But,
you know,
they can be helpful as part of that broader adv, integrated as part of a broader strategy.
It also has enormous pitfalls, um,
right. The,
the, um, AI is writing this, is it right, is it wrong? There's so much nuance
in,
in what we do in bill drafting and Right. Changing two words in the bill can be the difference between your company succeeding
or,
or being outlawed. And
so, you know,
there is a lot of this that I still think takes a personal touch,
but you know,
tho those tools can be helpful.
I'll,
I'll also mention.
You know,
one of the things that we worked on last year, which is a little bit controversial, but we helped pass something called
AI, Advocacy & The RAISE Act
Jack O'Donnell: the New York Raise Act, and there [00:39:00] was all kinds
of,
of, I think, very misleading advocacy,
a
a about that against that from some of the big tech companies.
But,
but the RAISE Act basically says if you have a major AI. Um,
you know,
model, right? A frontier model. You, um, are obligated. Now it has to be big enough that they, you've spent millions of dollars on developing this. So it is not startups, it is not, um, innovators. It is
the big,
the big tech companies we all know.
You have an obligation to have a safety plan.
That that's,
that's the essence of this. And
you,
you can be, if you don't, you can be held responsible for what you've created and
you know,
man, that's a reasonable guardrail to me. That's not putting anyone out of business. Couldn't
David Pfalzgraf: agree more.
Jack O'Donnell: But we need to start,
you know,
we need to start addressing that.
And man trying to talk to legislators about AI and how it works. It can be scary.
David Pfalzgraf: It's a tough job. And I think that again goes back [00:40:00] to, um, both of our points around relationships and that personal touch and the importance in both of our professions of. Not only maintaining, but strengthening the personal relationships we have with others.
It's,
it's nice to know that
at least,
at least while I'm still around, probably that, um, AI can't disrupt the importance of conversations like this
and,
and meetings and lunches and coffee dates and things like that.
Those,
those are still real
and,
and still have an impact. And so I'm glad to hear that. Uh.
That,
you know, that
that is, uh, true for you as well, so it's great.

David Pfalzgraf: Well,
thank you again, Jack. I look forward to having our pass cross again one day soon. So cheers. Nice to be with you. Thanks.